NWA Champ Ric Flair being interviewed by
Larry Matysik on an episode of Wrestling At the Chase
Question from George Maris:
Just bought a couple of the Classic St Louis Wrestling DVD's.
I was reading on the website Q&A's about the possibility of more St. Louis
Wrestling DVD's. I have a couple questions. Is there any video
footage of the Harley Race vs. Bob Backlund match from November of 1980 when
Race was NWA Champ and Backlund was WWF Champ? Also, is there any video
footage of the Missouri Title Tournament from 1983 when Flair wins the Missouri
Title? I am sure there would be a market for both if they were produced as
future DVD's.
Larry's Response:
Nice to meet a fan who remembers some great bouts. Unfortunately,
George, no tapes were ever taken of Kiel Auditorium cards in those days so
there is nothing of the Race-Backlund confrontation. The couple times we
were able to use action from Kiel either came from Mike Gratchner's 8mm films
or, in one case, a fan I don't even remember who took the Race-DiBiase
match with one of the first uses of the now-famous "Dusty finish."
(But we explained it better and that's how it should work! Take a look a
volume 6 of St. Louis wrestling classics...how's that for getting off the
subject??) As best I know, there is also no video of the 83 Missouri
tourney. I was gone from the promotion by then and really have no idea
what they did or didn't do.
Sorry!
Question from Bob Jinkerson:
This
is a two part question Larry. Do you have any particular memories of
Bulldog Brower? I thought he was a good, strong heel but his time in
St. Louis
was very brief as I remember. Why wasn’t he here longer? I know
he put Edouard Carpentier over in a couple of matches, which made sense since in
retrospect it would seem Carpentier was getting a push. But this leads to
my other question—the last match I remember seeing Brower in was a draw (20
minutes I believe) with Earl “Mr. Universe” Maynard, who never quite seemed
to click with the fans. To the best of my recollection there was no
rematch. What, in Sam’s mind, was the purpose of a draw if it wasn’t
going to be resolved? Were they just fillers to give wrestlers work?
This is something Ive always been curious about, expecially since I know more
about the business than I did as a young fan.
Larry's
Response:
Those names certainly inspire more memories, Bob. "Bulldog"
Brower was a tough little nut, and Irv Muchnick mentioned him in the column on
our site. He never really clicked as a drawing card and probably was
further hurt by the debut of Dick 'the Bruiser" - a similar build guy but
much bigger, more athletic, and much more charismatic. Brower was also
an expensive "trans" ticket since he came from Toronto-Buffalo,
where he often worked for SDam's good friend Frank Tunney. He was solid,
but I'd say more used as a favor to Tunney.
Earl Maynard was onenof the first body builders to go into wrestling.
He was an addition to the card, but not a great wrestler by any means.
He was limited in who against and how he could be booked.
As to the draws, they could serve a variety of purposes. Most
important, probably, as a prelim, they could entertain the fans with a quality
match that left both men strong for future opponents. It could also
serve as a boost to someone who fans expected to lose, but then held his own
with what was perceived as a tougher foe. The so-called moral victory.
And it could be a training ground. I can remember Dory Funk Jr.
(or was it Terry LOL) going 20-minutes with grizzled Lee "Bulldog"
Henning, who actually gave the young Funk a lesson in slowing down and getting
the fans into a match.
And, of course, on tv a time limit draw between two top hands was a boost
for Channel 11 and also served to whet fans appetites for the inevitable
showdown with a one hour limit or "to a finish."
Question from Brandon Smith:
I hope you and your family are ok. I was again
watching the great Flair-Brody match from Feb 83' and I was wondering why did
they leave the house lights on at the Checkerdome for the first 2 falls of the
match only to turn them off and leave the overhead ring lights on at the
beginning of the 3rd fall. Was it for security purposes? If matches were to go
to a draw would that happen. Do you recall this happening on other Kiel or
Checkerdome cards in St. Louis?
Larry's Response:
Great memory, Brandon. And the house lights being on for the first
fall of Brody-Flair from Feb. 11, 1983, and then dimmed is clearly noticed on
Volume 12 of St. Louis Wrestling Classics. Here is the story. KPLR
was taping that match and a couple others for Giant Baba's All Japan promotion
to air on Japanese television. The Checkerdome was a tough one to light
for the wrestling set-up. Therefore, director Jim Winkel asked that we
leave the house lights up (in addition to the ring lights) for the sake
of clarity. The crowd that night, though, was so excited that several
incidents occurred during the first fall. Sgt. Ken Gable of the police
department came to me after the first fall and asked that we kill the house
lights as the police felt it would be better for crowd control, so that
everyone wasn't seeing a disturbance and inciting those so inclined to do the
same. I agreed, checked with Wink who reluctantly agreed. And
that's why it's onlky ring lights for the second fall on. Actually, I do
think that the change didn't really damage how the match looked on television
back then...or now on DVD, 24 years later. Ouch!!!! 24 years!!!!!!
But that's the story.
Question from 'The Commissioner' Harry
White:
I have seen wrestlers comment that while they enjoyed the payoffs, the
fans, and the promoters, the Kiel ring was not something they enjoyed
performing in. Who owned the ring that was used at Kiel? Was getting a
different less hard ring ever discussed? Was the Kiel ring the same one
used at Checkerdome cards or the TV tapings?
A book titled Full Court about the St Louis Hawks mentioned the Opera House
being used for a sold out playoff game played in the auditorium side. Was
something like that ever considered for one of the big New Year's day or
season ending June cards or big advance sales cards? I realize that you had
closed circuit in the Opera House for the first St Louis WWF card.
Hypothetically, if you had access to the Opera house for closed circuit in the
70s or 80s, which card or cards might have been feasible for it?
Did Sam at any time ever mention anything about the Hutton/O'Connor title
match. Nobody knows anything about that match besides the time and finish.
Larry's Response:
The ring at Kiel, Harry, belonged to the city and Kiel Auditorium. It
came with the rent! The ring at the television studio belonged to the
St. Louis Wrestling Club but was always left there for the simple fact it was
easier than moving it all over the city for shows. Plus, when KPLR
stored that ring, it was below their news set and would have required
dismantling half the studio to take out on a Friday, then resetting the studio
for news, then tearing it apart again for a Sunday taping. So it
generally stayed put. The Arena also had their own ring originally, then
the ring from KPLR was moved there a couple times with nothing but headaches
at KPLR, then The Checkerdome got their own ring, and later in 1983 when I ran
opposition The Checkerdome owned a new ring I had built specially by the Dusek
family in Omaha. At least everyone loved that ring...we had a spring to
give some movement in the middle and it was modern. Dick Murdoch called
it a great "bump" ring and anyone who had been in that concrete-like
ring at Kiel thought that ring in 1983 was pure heaven. The ring was
lost for awhile and then sold off for parts when the Arena/Checkerdome was
brought down years later. As to O'Connor-Hutton, the only real mention
Sam ever made was that Hutton was a great wrestler and a good guy, but just
did not work as a champion for lack of charisma. I always had the
impression that the match with Pat and Dick was simply something those who ran
the business at the time felt had to be done for everyone's best interests.
Oh, and Harry, as to the Opera
House...Sam honestly never thought of that. His feeling was that a
sellout was a sellout and it made tickets for an event more valuable, even
if he could have made a few more bucks for a single show. Of course, to
close circuit and set up equipment added much more expense and more profit
was not at all guarantee. What if only 150 bought the closed circuit
but you had $5000 in expense to set it up? And Sam was conservative,
careful. A show wasn't sold out until the last ticket was sold and,
truthfully, that seldom if ever happened on any sellout ... although there
were times we were sdold out by 7:45 or so for an 8:30 show.
Question from Eric Melniczek:
Hi. I just got done reading your article from July 19th
on the current state of professional wrestling. You broke into the business, in
the late 1960s/early 1970s, when it was exciting. I was born in 1973, but I
enjoyed watching wrestling from 1980 – 1990. I have not watched it regularly
in more than 15 years because it has changed and changed for the worse. Sad
state of affairs. I enjoy watching Wrestling from the Chase on DVD.
Larry's Response:
Eric, I agree with you. It is a sad state of affairs in wrestling today.
It hurts me to see what has happened, and all of the performers it has hurt.
Yet they too need to stand up and learn their own business, as someone like
Frank Goodish (King Kong Brody) did. Unfortunately, they have also been
manipulated and, worse yet, fans continue to suppoprt the product even when
they see -- and complain !! -- about all the tragedy it has brought in its
current state. I find it deeply distressing, as you do.
Question from Tom Marshall:
Growing up in Kansas City, I followed the local wrestling.
Is there a book that you are aware of that chronicles Kansas City wrestling?
I would love to know more about my favorites the Stomper and Cowboy Bob Ellis.
Thank you for your many contributions and for writing the book.
Larry's Response:
Thanks for the praise, Tom.
Yep, the memories we have of growing up with wrestling in St. Louis, in Kansas
City, in Tampa, in Dallas, or where ever are all unique and special.
Each really does have its own story to tell.
The
Stomper was a long time headliner in Kansas City and also had many upper level
matches in St. Louis. Originally billed as The Mongolian Stomper in the
1960s, eventually he became a fan favorite and just - The Stomper. His
real name was Archie Gouldie and he was trained in the old Stu Hart territory
of Western Canada, where he also was in main events. Joe Millich,. who I
mention with great fondness in my book, was a good friend of Archie's and
helped break him into the business. He was strong, tough, and
surprisingly good on the mat. In retrospect, the gimmick of The Stomper
might not have been the best thing for him in the long run. On the other
hand, Archie didn't change identities back and forth and that is good.
He had a solid career.
"Cowboy" Bob Ellis was a
huge star from 1959 through the 60s, and even was often on top in the early
70s. Very athletic, with those Western good looks, he was the epitome of
"baby face" in that era. He was on top over most of the
country, often main eventing in both New York's Madison Square Garden against
Buddy Rogers and against Gene Kiniski at Kiel Auditorium in St. Louis.
He allegedly had a run of unknown length with the Philadelphia Eagles of the
NFL before going into wrestling. His bulldog headlock was a big deal in
its time. Bottom line is that "Cowboy" Bob Ellis could draw
money.
His later years were more
problematical, as he got into legal difficulties while racing horses and
bounced around from Texas to Australia after he left wrestling. But in
his prime, Ellis was an exciting, main event performer.